May 13–20, 1999

20 questions

interview by a.d. amorosi

Before fetish culture went mainstream and pulpy violence became a film prerequisite, Richard Kern was creating macabre, comic visions of nude women, postpunk downtown NYC rockers and uninitiated savagery. Super 8 B&W films like those compiled in his Hardcore video series featured music, acting and sex stunts from the likes of Lydia Lunch, Clint Ruin and Thurston Moore, all under the banner of Transgressive Cinema. When Kern fell prey to the demons of the lifestyle, he pulled out and started to film rock videos for The Breeders, King Missile and, early on, Marilyn Manson. But it's his photography that caused controversy, capturing New York Girls in two books for Taschen that oozed with the questionable potential victimization of his nude female subjects. But look deep into the eyes of these women and those in his new book, Richard Kern (Charta/D.A.P.), and you'll see women in full possession of their sexuality who look more like they could beat the shit out of you.

By the 1980s you had moved pretty quickly from photos to filmmaking and then back again to photography in the '90s. Why?

I started to make films when I realized moving images had more impact than stationary images and it was easier to show films in clubs than get a photo show in a good gallery. Super 8 was still a useful medium when I was making films. I went back to photos as a serious pursuit in 1990 or 1991. My years of abuse left me broke. Black-and-white photography was the only medium I could afford.

Is it more accurate to say the Transgressive film culture calmed down or that commercial independent filmmakers caught up to you?

I think that there was more of a disintegration rather than a calming down. One of the original excuses I used for my films back then was that I was trying to put in the films things I couldn't see anywhere else. Now, it's in Hollywood.

Why move from blood to erotica? And do you see your work as erotic or, yechh, exploitative?

When I got off drugs and ended my death trip, it was time for me to begin to discover sex. This is the normal progression for a growing human. When you're a boy, you participate in aggressive activities like sports or war games. Then you discover sex and your interests change. As for exploitation, I've never worked with anyone who didn't want to work with me. I try to find out everyone's boundaries before I begin.

Your work has evolved from the stuff before 1996. Do people see the humor in your newer work, like the new Richard Kern book?

I'm looking a lot more for humor within the images. I hope they get the humor. Sometimes, [the models] are embarrassed by what they thought was going to be sexy-looking photos that are instead funny. A good example is Lisa looking through her legs. She's a beautiful girl who didn't want to do anything outrageous. But after she saw the photos she said, "You tricked me—this is offensive!" but she wasn't mad.

How do you get models now—I know they used to knock down your door at one point?

Originally, I got the models from friends and friends of friends. Now, they contact me from my Web site and through other photographers.

How are the models in the new book different from New York Girls?

Most of the women I shot in other countries didn't care how the photos were to be used. They didn't care if the photos were going to be in a porno mag or in an art book. A lot of the girls in New York Girls didn't want their photos to appear in any sex mags.

What do you do with the ones under 18?

I tell them to "please come back when you're 18." I tell all of the models right off the bat that "you need to be 18 years old and have two forms of ID to prove it. One must be a photo ID."

Models interested in posing for Kern or those wanting to buy his wares can contact him on the Web at www.richardkern.com.