June 24–July 1, 1999

20 questions

interview by Kristin Keith

If you’re not familiar with Lillian Faderman’s work, visit the home of any lesbian and chances are you’ll find a copy of one her books: Odd Girls and Twilight Lovers: A History of Lesbian Life in Twentieth-Century America, Chloe Plus Olivia: An Anthology of Lesbian Literature from the Seventeenth Century to the Present or Surpassing the Love of Men: Romantic Friendship and Love Between Women From The Renaissance to the Present. Faderman’s new book, titled To Believe In Women (Houghton Mifflin), studies the once-prim lesbians of history and offers a rich portrait of their lives (that includes sex). In a direct style and with a sense of humor, Faderman draws from the letters of prominent leaders such as Susan B. Anthony, Jane Addams and Eleanor Roosevelt, and fleshes out their achievements, both public and private. Where in previous books Faderman has remained conservative, this time she doesn’t leave out the juicy bits, like the origins of Pussy ("Puisye," from the French word for powerful), or ill-concealed references to the act of "bosom sex." Faderman, a 59-year-old mother of one, answers the phone in her San Diego summer home with a voice that is soothing and unexpectedly sultry.

What were you hoping to achieve with To Believe in Women?

I really wanted to show that women who loved women were on the forefront of all those women’s movements, movements that, after a hiatus from about 1920 to 1970, have profited all American women and profited America in general, it seems to me.

Did you encounter any resistance in getting your materials?

I didn’t at the archives. Part of the reason for that may be that when I was asked what I was doing I generally said that I was working on women pioneers but I didn’t use the "L word." They wouldn’t have used the "L word" about themselves, in fact, because it would have been associated with the French lesbienne, which in French novels and poetry of the 19th century suggested decadence and they didn’t think they were decadent at all. The problem that I encountered was a historical problem, and what I mean by that is that despite the fact that I found some incredible letters, many of them clearly erotic and others very passionate, although not specifically erotic, I know there must have been much more.

Among them you found many by Eleanor Roosevelt. How do you feel about the controversy they stir up?

The letters are there. You can’t deny that she writes to Lorena Hickok and those are clearly lesbian love letters. They talk about sleeping together. They talk about wanting to kiss the other one at the northeast corner of her mouth. What do those things mean? Obviously they are lesbians.

As you "out" these prominent figures of the past, how do you feel about today’s constant speculation about celebrities like Jodie Foster?

It seems to me there is some difference between historical outing and the outing of contemporary figures who for one reason or another don’t want to be outed. Now if they are the enemies of the gay community I think they should be outed. For instance, someone like Roy Cohn, who was gay and helped persecute homosexuals, should certainly have been outed. But if a Jodie Foster really believes deeply that outing her will destroy her career, I think we need to cool it in that case. I think she is just an incredible image and I wouldn’t want to destroy that woman’s career.

And how was it for you when you first came out?

I came out in 1956. Two years later I was a freshman at UCLA and I remember that all entering freshmen had to take a battery of psychological tests that asked all sorts of questions. But scattered among those questions were things like "Do you ever fantasize making love to someone of the same sex?" And of course I knew to answer "no" to these questions. Now it’s inconceivable. Now we have policies of nondiscrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. In those days you could easily get expelled, or if you were a professor you could easily lose your job.

Lillian Faderman will read and give a slide presentation Fri., June 25, 7:30 p.m., at Giovanni’s Room, 345 S. 12th St., 215-923-2960.