Five Minutes With

Louis Giorla, Acting Prisons Commissioner

by Tom Namako

How could Mayor Nutter's inaugural budget affect prison overcrowding? We had an e-mail discussion with Acting Prisons Commissioner Louis Giorla to find out.

Louis Giorla: The prison population will never decrease unless the city gets a handle on crime, which the other successful big cities did first. I don't know of any jurisdiction, big or small, that reduced their jail populations before doing so.

City Paper: Did Mayor Nutter allocate enough money in his most recent budget to adequately address the needs of the prison system in the upcoming and future years?

LG: The important thing is that the budget was increased and not reduced, as was done in the last few years. The system's needs are always changing and right now we have to fit into the crime plan and whether any increase in population is associated with the initiative.

CP: A recent PICA report said Nutter's budget does not "directly address the impacts of the increasingly higher prison census or prison costs," and that many of the strategies for reducing prison costs aren't clear about "how quickly they can be implemented or how successful they will be." Do you agree with this? Why or why not?

LG: The administration has reviewed recommendations from its own transition team, along with recommendations from my predecessor, Commissioner King, as well as suggestions submitted by our staff. Our census has not decreased in 325 years. We are considering a number of recommendations from within and outside the agency to reduce costs or supplement our revenues without reducing services, which will have to grow as the population increases.

CP: Several studies have shown that the prison system has been over-budget almost every year since 1997. Do you think, given the current levels of funding outlined by the mayor, this will happen again in the next and upcoming years?

LG: The budget has always been based on census projections and the presumption that our staffing will remain at the budgeted level. Unfortunately, census increases usually exceed the projections and staff attrition exceeds our ability to hire and keep positions filled. I might add that staff retention is a problem in prisons and jails nationwide.

CP: Are you concerned that Nutter and Commissioner Ramsey's new crime-fighting plan will supply, at least in its early stages, an influx of prisoners due to outstanding warrant arrests? How will the system handle this monetarily and logistically?

LG: Of course, if a significant number of outstanding bench warrant defendants are apprehended, we will see a marked increased in population. We have been reviewing several proposals to increase bed space using in-house modification and through contracts with other agencies. While costs can be estimated, the end result of how high the population gets will determine the expense. We know we cannot expect a blank check from the administration or the taxpayers, but we have to exercise financial responsibility every step of the way.

CP: What are the current space conditions at the prison? In the past month, I've received two inmate letters saying that they are sleeping in converted "day-rooms" with other prisoners because there is no other space. Is this accurate? How is the system dealing with having more prisoners than there is space for them?

LG: Over the last 10 years we have converted a number of activity rooms to cell space to accommodate increases in the population. Some are former day rooms. Even though we exceed the original design capacity of some of our facilities, we have selected areas that can be securely and humanely managed.

CP: What kind of plan would you outline to fix the situation?

LG: A combination of administrative remedies (such as mental health court linked with inpatient mental health beds, day reporting for low-level non violent offenders), increased bed space through vendors that provide custody and programming, and renovating our existing facilities to create more bed space.

CP: The five-year plan, on page 61, reads that "the management of the PPS' population is driven by forces outside the Nutter Administration." Do you feel that this is accurate? Do you feel that the administration cannot widely help the system?

LG: Yes, yes and no. The population is driven by several factors that the administration is committed to improving. Education is one. If the dropout rate is reduced, for instance, the likelihood of young adults coming to jail (with a ninth grade formal education) would be reduced.

The administration can influence the courts, police, prisons and local service agencies to act together to accomplish a common mission: improve the quality of life which will attract new residents to the City, create economic opportunity which will benefit everyone including ex-offenders and devise supports for those released from jail which will reduce the chance they will re-offend.

CP: Did Mayor Nutter meet with you before introducing the budget? If so, did you raise any objections to the funding levels? Why or why not?

LG: The mayor's budget team met with prisons senior staff to review expenses and to compile information for the '09 budget and the five-year plan. I think that the funding levels now are adequate to address our needs. One unknown we don't always consider is the reaction of the offender population on our streets. They may react to the Police Commissioner's plan by deciding to reduce their own level of criminal activity or they may dig in and resist. It is clear that the administration and the police will no longer tolerate those flouting the law. Hopefully, many of the offenders whose behavior straddles the line between abiding by the law or ignoring it will be influenced for the better.

(tom.namako@citypaper.net)